Question: I have recently done my 23&me DNA test and have also put my info into AthletiGen. I’m curious about your thoughts about high fat/low carb diet in context of this info. My test says I am ‘2x more likely to loose weight on a low fat diet’, and that I have ‘normal sensitivity to weight gain due to saturated fat intake/and unsaturated fat intake’, & ‘likely to eat normal amounts of carbs’! All interesting but in the ketosis context, I took this to mean that eating high fat/low carb would not be of greatest benefit to me?! (I have tried getting into ketosis prior to all the new supps, for about 3 months, and I couldn’t get in to it (tested w/ blood finger prick) and didn’t feel great). Which leads me to wonder what Macro ratio would be best, as I’m also a endo-meso)!
The difference between ketosis and ketoacidosis is the level of ketones in the blood. Ketosis is a physiological adaptation to a low carbohydrate environment like fasting or a ketogenic diet. There are situations (such as treatment-resistant epilepsy) where ketosis can be beneficial to health. Ketoacidosis is an acute life-threatening state requiring prompt medical intervention; its most common form is diabetic ketoacidosis where both glucose and ketone levels are significantly elevated.
Hi I’m new to Keto. I have been reading about it, and understanding what to eat and what not to eat. My problem is I’m not sure if I’m doing it correctly. I’m constantly hungry whereas information reads that I will never be hungry. I use fats as required along with topping up with vegetables in my meals yet this does not fill me up. I haven’t experienced the Keto flu and I’ve even put on weight! I have been doing this for about 3 weeks now. Any ideas where I am going wrong.
More good news: Snacks are totally allowed (and I'm not just talking about carrot sticks). There are plenty of packaged options out there designed for keto fans. FATBAR is one of them. These snack bars have 200 calories, 16 grams of fat, and four grams of net carbs. They're also plant-based and are made with almond or cashew butter, cocoa butter, coconut, pea protein, sunflower seeds, and chia seeds.
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Fascinating stuff and I am quite curious how we know for certain one is actually in ketosis i.e. using ketones as primary fuel source BECAUSE we do know that glucose has a shorter metabolic pathway to burn and under most conditions, given the presence of glucose, that is what the body will default to which is why high fat and high sugar together in diet is so detrimental. So if we use one or more of the above “boosters” and show high levels of blood ketones but also highish levels of glucose (during initial transition) will be mostly burning ketones or still defaulting to glucose?
But beyond that, experts aren't convinced that the keto diet has any other scientifically-proven health benefits. In fact, it may have some distinct downsides. If you follow the keto diet incorrectly, for example (like by eating lots of saturated fats, versus healthy unsaturated fats), you're at risk of raising your cholesterol levels. “The best strategy to keep your heart healthy is to get as much fat as possible from unsaturated sources such as olive, avocado and canola oils, nuts, seeds, avocados, and olives," says Ansel.

Hi, I’m still a bit skeptical, I have seen some of my friends do the keto diet, and have had good results. Though I am still not sure about the idea of the fats being eaten. They say they eat meat with the fat and must do so, is this correct? Also isn’t this not good for the body especially for the kidneys? Second, can a diabetic do this diet? There are many questions running through my head.


In Asia, the normal diet includes rice and noodles as the main energy source, making their elimination difficult. Therefore, the MCT-oil form of the diet, which allows more carbohydrate, has proved useful. In India, religious beliefs commonly affect the diet: some patients are vegetarians, will not eat root vegetables or avoid beef. The Indian ketogenic diet is started without a fast due to cultural opposition towards fasting in children. The low-fat, high-carbohydrate nature of the normal Indian and Asian diet means that their ketogenic diets typically have a lower ketogenic ratio (1:1) than in America and Europe. However, they appear to be just as effective.[54]
^ Jump up to: a b Sinclair, H. M. (1953). "The Diet of Canadian Indians and Eskimos" (PDF). Proceedings of the Nutrition Society. 12 (1): 69–82. doi:10.1079/PNS19530016. ISSN 0029-6651. It is, however, worth noting that according to the customary convention (Woodyatt, 1921 ; Shaffer, 1921) this diet is not ketogenic since the ratio of ketogenic(FA) to ketolytic (G) aliments is 1.09. Indeed, the content of fat would have to exactly double (324 g daily) to make the diet ketogenic (FA/G>1–5).

In one week my husband lost 1.5 kg because of Keto diet and recipes. Thank you for the insights and tips. I would like to have a complete recipe for meals everyday and hoping by subscribing I will receive try my mail. I will keep u posted. It takes 2 to tango. The one who wants to diet must be cooperative with the plan and execution while the other person who is preparing the food must be patient to the dieting person. Its not easy to change meals so patience is required
The popular low-carb diets (such as Atkins or Paleo) modify a true keto diet. But they come with the same risks if you overdo it on fats and proteins and lay off the carbs. So why do people follow the diets? "They're everywhere, and people hear anecdotally that they work," McManus says. Theories about short-term low-carb diet success include lower appetite because fat burns slower than carbs. "But again, we don't know about the long term," she says. "And eating a restrictive diet, no matter what the plan, is difficult to sustain. Once you resume a normal diet, the weight will likely return."
Awesome info. I’ve been LCHF moderate protein (about 1 g per lean lbs/mass) and 50-100g of carbs for about a year. I’d consume around 2500 cals. I’m active 4-5 days a week (60-90 min cycling sessions) I started using MCT/Butter coffee. It surpressd my appetite and I would only eat whole food at lunch/dinner…still LCHF, but since my appetite was lower I was only takin in about 1800 cals. After about 2 weeks I started to gain body fat. Do you think the reduced caloric intake is the culprit? Should I “force” myself to eat…maybe up the MCT intake to make up the difference?
There are a few ways of pushing your body into ketosis, including sustained periods of fasting and following a ketogenic diet (as the name so obviously suggests).  Dr. D’Agostino also suggests spending some time in the sun and heat.  Getting out in the sun lowers glucose and raises ketones, and can push you into ketosis, especially if you’ve been fasting.
This answer made me sad. Having lived in New York all of my life, I from a young age saw loved ones fall victim to spontaneous gluten intolerance and restaurants run to their rescue with accommodating menus.  This is why I get annoyed. What’s a dietary prescription for someone who wants to go to a dinner party and be able to eat a meal that was prepared for them? Keto is cultish not for its members’ radical commitment to a dietary restriction but for their lack of full participation in the outside world.
1. If a set number ketones in the blood is an indicator that my body has transitioned to ketosis and not necessarily the cause (the cause being limited access to glycogen because of limited carb intake) then how does using exogenous ketones put me in ketosis as opposed to mimic being in ketosis (because when measuring blood ketones suddenly there are more because I put them there, I didn’t create them)?
First, I want to thank you for all of your dedication and work in providing this site. The difficulty of maintaining a healthy weight is a big problem for so many people. My personal question & issue in staying on Keto is my craving for fresh fruit. This a.m I had a large fresh peach along with my “Bullet Proof” coffee. Have I now sabotaged today’s Keto eating?
Adipose tissue can be used to store fatty acids for regulating temperature and energy.[21] These fatty acids can be released by adipokine signaling of high glucagon and epinephrine levels, which inversely corresponds to low insulin levels. High glucagon and low insulin correspond to times of fasting or to times when blood glucose levels are low.[23] Fatty acids must be metabolized in mitochondria in order to produce energy, but free fatty acids cannot penetrate biological membranes due to their negative electrical charge. So coenzyme A is bound to the fatty acid to produce acyl-CoA, which is able to enter the mitochondria.
A survey in 2005 of 88 paediatric neurologists in the US found that 36% regularly prescribed the diet after three or more drugs had failed, 24% occasionally prescribed the diet as a last resort, 24% had only prescribed the diet in a few rare cases, and 16% had never prescribed the diet. Several possible explanations exist for this gap between evidence and clinical practice.[34] One major factor may be the lack of adequately trained dietitians, who are needed to administer a ketogenic diet programme.[31]
Great article, thanks for the info. My question would be this: Is there any benefit for weight loss by taking the Keto/OS and not making any dietary changes (eating standard American diet) In other words, will the Keto/OS help me to lose weight without going on a special diet? Do I have to work out in order to benefit (weight loss) from using this product?
“For events longer than 60 minutes, consuming 0.7 g carbohydrates·kg-1 body weight·h-1 (approximately 30-60 g·h-1) has been shown unequivocally to extend endurance performance. Consuming carbohydrates during exercise is even more important in situations when athletes have not carbohydrate-loaded, not consumed pre-exercise meals, or restricted energy intake for weight loss. Carbohydrate intake should begin shortly after the onset of activity; [and continue] at 15- to 20-min intervals throughout the activity.”
-Cancer: Numerous studies have found that the risk for cancer increases with high blood sugar, which makes sense, since cancer cells feed primarily on glucose. This includes cancers of the endometrium, pancreas, and colon and colorectal tumors. Tim Ferriss recently hosted a fantastic article by Peter Attia about this very issue, and how ketosis may indeed be a potential cancer cure.

This benefit surprised me when I first discovered it, but eating fewer carbohydrates during a workout can actually help you recover from workouts faster. The repair and recovery of skeletal muscle tissue is dependent on the “transcription” of certain components of your RNA. And a bout of endurance exercise combined with low muscle-carbohydrate stores can result in greater activation of this transcription. In other words, by training in a low-carbohydrate state, you train your body to recover faster.


Keto is short for ketogenic. If you didn’t already know, it’s a high-fat, low-carb diet. The goal of the ketogenic diet is to get your body into a “ketogenic state,” or a physiological state in which your body is not burning carbohydrates -- which break down to glucose -- but an alternative energy source called ketones, which are produced by the liver when your body is depleted of glucose. Ketones are formed from fat stores. In order for your body to start producing ketones, it needs to first run out of glycogen stores. After you deprive your body of carbs, it takes a bit of time for the glucose to clear out.
"Some people stop working with me because they're not going to be proven wrong. You’re dissing their religion," said Libby, a registered dietician who asked that her full name not be used because of the private hate messages she's received from the community.   “If there was a diet or a pill or something that really was this miracle diet weight-loss thing that lasted and was healthy for you, we wouldn't have all these different diets all the time, there wouldn't be health complications, there wouldn't be so much controversy about it and the first time that you'd be learning about it wouldn't be on a 3pm talk show."
“If you’re going to do keto, there’s a better and a worse way to do it,” says Yawitz. “Loading your plate with meats, and especially processed meats, may increase your risk for kidney stones and gout,” which is a painful type of arthritis. “High intake of animal proteins makes your urine more acidic and increases calcium and uric acid levels. This combination makes you more susceptible to kidney stones, while high uric acid can increase your risk for gout,” adds Yawitz.

Carbohydrates have been linked to this skin condition, so cutting down on them may help. And the drop in insulin that a ketogenic diet can trigger may also help stop acne breakouts. (Insulin can cause your body to make other hormones that bring on outbreaks.) Still, more research is needed to determine exactly how much effect, if any, the diet actually has on acne. 

Lots of apps and websites offer keto diet challenges—basically, a blueprint for the keto diet with a fixed starting and ending point (they typically last for a week to a month, though some may be longer). Speaking of apps, plenty of keto-centric ones are right at your fingertips (a.k.a., your smartphone), like the KetoDiet app, which can help you calculate your macros and track your keto diet effectively.
Shifting your metabolism and achieving ketosis may speed up weight loss and result in other health benefits, like more energy and a lower blood pressure. But while ketosis is a preferred nutritional state for some people, it isn’t recommended for everyone — and it’s not a good long-term eating approach due to its restrictive nature, which may lead to potentially dangerous nutritional deficiencies.

Burns fat: You can drop a lot of weight — and quickly — on the keto diet.[3] Ketones suppress ghrelin — your hunger hormone — and increase cholecystokinin (CCK), which makes you feel full.[4] Reduced appetite means it’s easier to go for longer periods without eating, which encourages your body to dip into its fat stores for energy. Learn more here about the keto diet and weight loss. 


In theory, all of this is possible. A study published in the Journal of Nutrition did find an association between having more severe bacterial vaginosis and consuming diets higher in total fat and saturated fat. But the keto diet is still a relatively new rage, and not enough scientific studies have been done to determine whether "keto crotch" is really a risk of the keto diet.


One more thing that I noticed is that my HR does not move Beyond a certain point. I can still perform quite at a high level and faster than most people at my box but weirdly enough it’s like there’s a block on my HR which doesn’t allow it to move beyond 160 bpm. I’m not sure if this is good or bad! Could I go even faster if my HR would pass this limit?? It is a physiological barrier created by the glycogen sparing mechanism that doesn’t allow my body to move after a certain point so it won’t have to tap into my glycogen stores or force my body to go into gluconeogenesis?? If I added some more carbs around my workouts would it be easier to get the glycolytic pathway to work more effectively since it’d be faster and easier fuel? I read about the downregulation of PDH enzymes after prolonged keto and I constantly worry that I dont use my glycolytic pathway as effective anymore. I LOVE this lifestyle but at the same time, as athletes; we’re always thinking on how to improve performance. What are your thoughts?! Thank you so much!!

First reported in 2003, the idea of using a form of the Atkins diet to treat epilepsy came about after parents and patients discovered that the induction phase of the Atkins diet controlled seizures. The ketogenic diet team at Johns Hopkins Hospital modified the Atkins diet by removing the aim of achieving weight loss, extending the induction phase indefinitely, and specifically encouraging fat consumption. Compared with the ketogenic diet, the modified Atkins diet (MAD) places no limit on calories or protein, and the lower overall ketogenic ratio (about 1:1) does not need to be consistently maintained by all meals of the day. The MAD does not begin with a fast or with a stay in hospital and requires less dietitian support than the ketogenic diet. Carbohydrates are initially limited to 10 g per day in children or 20 g per day in adults, and are increased to 20–30 g per day after a month or so, depending on the effect on seizure control or tolerance of the restrictions. Like the ketogenic diet, the MAD requires vitamin and mineral supplements and children are carefully and periodically monitored at outpatient clinics.[48]
First, a little background: Eric Westman, MD, director of the Duke Lifestyle Medical Clinic, explained to Health in a previous interview that in order to successfully follow the keto diet, you need to eat moderate amounts of protein, reduce your carb intake, and increase fats. When you reduce your carb consumption, your body turns to stored fat as its new fuel source—a process called ketosis. To stay in ketosis, followers of the keto diet must limit their carbs to 50 grams a day, Dr. Westman says.
Keto breath, on the other hand, is less of a side-effect and more of a harmless inconvenience (your breath literally smells like nail polish remover). Basically, when your body breaks down all that extra fat on the keto diet, it produces ketones—one of which is the chemical acetone, Keatley previously told WomensHealthMag.com. (Yes, the same stuff that's in nail polish remover.)
Physical or mental fatigue during workouts (or while you’re sitting at your office) is caused by the low blood glucose that occurs as your carbohydrate fuel tank approaches empty (also known as the infamous “bonk”, which is awesomely demonstrated in this funniest running cartoon I’ve ever seen). Because it is generally (and sadly) accepted as orthodox knowledge that the human body can’t burn fat as a reliable fuel source – especially when you’re exercising for long periods of time or at high intensities – nearly every shred of nutrition science is simply looking for ways to somehow increase the size of your carbohydrate fuel tank and hack the body to allow it to store more carbs or absorb carbs more quickly.
Cyclical keto diet: The Bulletproof Diet falls into this category. You eat high fat, low carb (less than 50 grams of net carbs a day) five to six days of the week. On day seven, you up your carb intake to roughly 150 grams, during what’s called a carb refeed day. Carb cycling this way helps you avoid the negative effects some people experience when they restrict carbs long term, like thyroid issues, fatigue and dry eyes.[9][10]  Learn more here about how carb cycling works.

Acetyl-CoA can be metabolized through the TCA in any cell, but it can also undergo a different process in liver cells: ketogenesis, which produces ketone bodies.[27] Ketone bodies are also produced in mitochondria, and usually occur in response to low blood glucose levels.[28] When glucose levels are low, oxaloacetate is diverted away from the TCA cycle and is instead used to produce glucose de novo (gluconeogenesis). But when oxaloacetate is unavailable to condense with acetyl-CoA, acetyl-CoA cannot enter the cycle, and so the body has evolved an alternative way to harvest energy from it.
More good news: Snacks are totally allowed (and I'm not just talking about carrot sticks). There are plenty of packaged options out there designed for keto fans. FATBAR is one of them. These snack bars have 200 calories, 16 grams of fat, and four grams of net carbs. They're also plant-based and are made with almond or cashew butter, cocoa butter, coconut, pea protein, sunflower seeds, and chia seeds.
These affect your brain and spine, as well as the nerves that link them together. Epilepsy is one, but others may be helped by a ketogenic diet as well, including Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, and sleep disorders. Scientists aren’t sure why, but it may be that the ketones your body makes when it breaks down fat for energy help protect your brain cells from damage.
I was thinking of buying exogenous ketones for my mother. She plays golf daily but gained some weight as of late. My mother does not want to do the diet but I was thinking this might help her with energy and losing weight. Another person told me it would help her. But then I got to thinking, if she went into Ketosis, then wouldn’t she get the keto flu rather than get energy and mental clarity? Would I need to tell her to take it everyday?

I never stopped eating Keto friendly. I think I was just over eating and snacking, they have always been problems for me. My birthday, Christmas, New Years, overconfidence, my own depression, and an injury that keeps me from the gym, I let it add up. Joining in with my family with stevia desserts and cheese plates, it might be okay for some folks on Keto, not me. I didn't gain, so now I understand maintenance mode, I just couldn't break my low weight, I don't know how many times I relost the same 5 pounds.
Ideally, you combine supplemental ketones with a relatively low carb diet, especially if metabolic efficeincy is important to you. HOWEVER, you can achieve most of the benefits of ketosis aside from the fat burning efficiency by using exogenous ketones. So it all depends on how lean you are, what's important to you from a performance vs. fat loss standpoint, etc.
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Food is your body’s primary source of energy, and three main nutrients in foods supply your body with this energy. These are carbohydrates, fat, and protein. Typically after eating a meal, your body will first break down carbohydrates from foods, and then fat and protein.Ketosis is a natural metabolic state that occurs when your body doesn’t have enoughcarbs (or glucose) for energy, so it burns fat instead.
One proposed benefit of the ketogenic diet is that you may lose more weight compared with other diets. One study of 17 obese men found that a high-protein, low-carb ketogenic diet over a four-week period helped reduce hunger, resulting in lower food intake and more weight loss compared with a high-protein, medium-carbohydrate nonketogenic diet. (3)
This is an absolutely necessary function for basic survival. As the body can only store carbs for a day or two, the brain would quickly shut down after a couple of days without food. Alternatively it would quickly have to convert our muscle protein into glucose – a very inefficient process – just to keep the brain going. That would make us waste away quickly. It would also ensure that the human race could hardly have survived all those millennia before we had 24-7 food availability.

Ben – curious about your thoughts on this. I went into ketosis (using LOTS of coconut oil) but it raised my cholesterol and doc was worried about my lp(a) level (17mg/dL on VAP) even though crp was 0.5, trigs 51 and a1c was 5.2. Advised a low fat diet. Have you seen this before with folks on a lchf/ketosis diet and is there anything to be concerned about? Off to read your coconut oil article. Thank you!


When you burn key tones as a funeral, whether they are from a supplement or whether they are the ones that your body makes, you do indeed become more efficient utilizing ketones. So that is one advantage. You are correct in that if you simply use these and you do not restrict carbohydrate intake then you're not going to get quite as much benefit. I am a fan of combining these with intermittent fasting, MCT oil, and a high-fat diet.

I've tried that before(enzymedica digest gold for example) but it didn't seem to help much. It seems from testing that I have some heavy metal stuff going on and there might have been a chronic mold exposure in the past that is still reeking havoc and I imagine that might be affecting this pretty heavily. I will definitely be sticking to the avocadoes and coconut and 100% dark chocolate because I can't tolerate dairy. The hard part is figuring out what is the bare minimum of starch to make my gut feel good and be regular and at the same time become fat adapted and get those increased cognition and longevity benefits!!
Ketosis is deliberately induced by use of a ketogenic diet as a medical intervention in cases of intractable epilepsy.[12] Other uses of low-carbohydrate diets remain controversial.[14][15] Carbohydrate deprivation to the point of ketosis has been argued to have both negative[16] and positive effects on health.[17][18] Ketosis can also be induced following periods of fasting (starvation),[19] and after consumption of ketogenic fats (such as medium chain triglycerides[citation needed]) or exogenous ketones.[20]
You also get incredible gains in metabolic efficiency when you use fat as a primary source of fuel – especially when doing high-intensity interval training – with this one-two combo causing potent 3–5 percent decreases in the oxygen cost of exercise, which is extremely significant. Translated into real- world numbers, this increased fat utilization from carbohydrate restriction and high-intensity interval training would allow you to pedal a bicycle at a threshold of 315 watts, whereas a high-carbohydrate, aerobic-only program (the way most people train) would allow for only 300 watts. Talk to any cyclist and you’ll find out that an 15 extra watts of power is huge in a sport like cycling, and something most cyclists train years and years to achieve.
First, it’s important to understand how keto may help you lose weight. The purpose is to kick your body into ketosis, a natural metabolic state that forces your body to burn fat rather than carbs. This happens because, on the keto diet, you’re usually taking in 50 grams (g) or fewer of carbs per day, says Deborah Malkoff-Cohen, RD, a nutritionist based in New York City. While several types of the keto diet exist, the standard approach to this plan requires you to take in about 75 percent of your calories from fat, 20 percent from protein, and 5 percent from carbs.
No offense brother, but this whole article is a big selling advertisement. The health benefits of a “low – carb, high – fat” diet are well known and proven. I directly blame nutritionists, like yourself, for the fact that ~70% of American is considered obese now, not fat, obese. And the fact that Heart Disease is the number 2 killer in America now, second only to cancer.
Protein will induce an insulin response in the body, if consumed in high amounts. The most intuitive way to start a keto diet for most people is by removing all of the carbs they have been eating. Typically people will replace those calories by increasing their lean meat consumption. That's a recipe for disaster! Keeping protein moderate is an often overlooked, but very important part of a keto diet. Most people need around 0.6g to 1.0g of protein per pound of lean body mass.
Diabetic ketoacidosis occurs when ketone levels become too high, due to a lack of insulin, and poison the body. This condition can happen to anyone with diabetes, but it is more common in people with type 1 diabetes because their bodies don’t make insulin. In the event that their ketone level rises, their bodies are unable to produce insulin to slow down this production. If left untreated, this condition can lead to a diabetic coma or death.
Elevated blood ketone levels is the sign of ketosis, while certain subjective symptoms can also signal ketosis. Increased mental clarity, less brain fog, and diminished appetite are fairly common among people in ketosis. The ketogenic diet specifically has its own assortment of symptoms. Fortunately, the negative symptoms such as constipation, diarrhea, and bad breath are often temporary and tend fade as your body becomes better at fat burning and naturally producing ketones. The positive symptoms of ketosis coincide with higher levels of ketones in the blood. This may occur after several weeks of adhering to the ketogenic diet or very shortly after ingesting exogenous ketones.

Net carbs are what we track when following a ketogenic diet. This calculation is pretty straightforward. Net Carbs = Total Carbs – Fiber. For example, one cup of broccoli has 6g of total carbs and 2.4g of fiber. That would mean one cup of broccoli has 3.6g of net carbs. We count Net Carbs  because dietary fiber does not have a significant metabolic effect. 
Net carbs is simply total carbs minus fiber and non-digestible sugar alcohols, like erythritol. (This doesn’t apply to high glycemic sugar alcohols, like maltitol.) We don’t have to count fiber and certain sugar alcohols in net carbs, because they either don’t get broken down by our bodies, are not absorbed, or are absorbed but not metabolized. (Read more about sugar alcohols here.)

When you eat less than 50 grams of carbs a day, your body eventually runs out of fuel (blood sugar) it can use quickly. This typically takes 3 to 4 days. Then you’ll start to break down protein and fat for energy, which can make you lose weight. This is called ketosis. It's important to note that the ketogenic diet is a short term diet that's focussed on weight loss rather than the pursuit of health benefits. 
Considered a symptom of the keto flu, your breath on this diet often smells fruity at first. This is because acetone is a by-product of ketosis and is eliminated mostly through the lungs and the breath, according to a study in the journal International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health in February 2014. Acetone is a type of ketone known for having a fruity aroma in smaller concentrations. “It’s hard to say exactly how long it will last as it depends on the person, but it’s common for someone to experience this side effect for a few weeks,” says Asche.
This answer made me sad. Having lived in New York all of my life, I from a young age saw loved ones fall victim to spontaneous gluten intolerance and restaurants run to their rescue with accommodating menus.  This is why I get annoyed. What’s a dietary prescription for someone who wants to go to a dinner party and be able to eat a meal that was prepared for them? Keto is cultish not for its members’ radical commitment to a dietary restriction but for their lack of full participation in the outside world.
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